Talk:Laghodessa rush

List your questions here

1. Wouldn't sword Lann be at least higher priority than hammer Fiona? High damage doesn't seem to be Fiona's strength regardless of what weapon she's using.

Yes I had a comparison analysis between hammer fiona and sword lann. I wouldn't say Fiona's damage is weaker than sword lann's because I definitely have hit 5k in 1 smash. Thousand needle is good damage and good knockdown rate, but you can't really control it to release it at the correct moment like Fiona's Stigma does. And since this rush is all about spamming skills, the character that uses less stamina for the same damage would imply higher dps, namely Hammer Fiona is more preferred than Sword Lann.---H1111

That is entirely incorrect because Hammer Fiona (sword fiona isn't much better) is entirely too slow to have decent DPS. Sword lann easily beats out a hammer fiona. She's just way too slow. If you really did hit 5k, that's nice, but it took you so long to do it that any sword lann (or sword fiona even) could have done that in the time it took you to do-so.--DANTE20XX 23:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll again have to emphasis two things which I've already said. First of all, you have completely dismissed the point of stamina(thousand needle use more stam = more frequent recovery time). And second, timing when to unleash the smash. Yes I know for fact that thousand needle is a faster combo than stigma hammer(probably by 1-2secs). However, you cannot knockdown a spider when it's already down?! Therefore it's better to unleash a stigma when the spider is getting up.

• DPS sometimes is very perspective. It's easy to deceive oneself into thinking their own class does the most damage if they haven't have a chance to try other classes.----H1111
  

Ha! Shows how much you know about Lann. Thousand needles is barely worth using 90% of the time. They should be going for LLLR and then most likely go into a gliding fury. Both of those use not very much stamina at all and is MUCH stronger. Gliding fury is extremely powerful at high ranks + good agi. So yeah...hammer fiona still doesn't do much DPS period.--DANTE20XX 09:01, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

What he said... not to mention 1k needles takes exactly 16 stam if used right.

"you can't really control it to release it at the correct moment like Fiona's Stigma does" - Fiona can't hold her Stigma hammer for an unlimited amount of time. She automatically swings a little after three charges. So this point isn't really valid. And since thousand needles is so quick, I'd argue that you could very easily control it to release it when the spider is getting up. Plus, hammer Fiona has so much delay that she'll get hit a lot trying to combo on a standing spider. Lann can easily combo on a moving spider due to speed and range.

" 1. Ask any hammer Fiona around, and they'll tell you they can time it right. Stigma hammer -- charge up to 5 seconds. During charging, no stamina is used.

2. Spider is stuck up against the wall, no chasing needed.

3. The point of this guide is keep the spider under control, therefore getting hit should not happen if one knows where to stand.

Finally, I just wanted to say, to all Fiona out there, some people out there thinks, without doing calculations, that "Fiona swings slow, therefore doing weak damage." Feel free to add anymore comments, however I'll not reply on this topic seeing my effort it's futile. ----H1111"

Not to antagonize you further more, but heres what the stat calculator came up with. Stigma charge damage respectively is 1,357.8, 1,462.3, 1,671.2, and 2,089 depending on the charge, with an estimated second per charge. Then add the normal hit damage of 118. These are also slightly off seems how im assuming fiona is using armadillo with a balance of 60% where the calculator can only do 80%. It takes my sword fiona 4 seconds to use armanth kick, now assuming the hammer is 1/3 slower, so about 5.5 seconds to get to stigma hammer, plus the the charge you get it to, say the highest, thats 8.5 seconds to do the most damage possible. Stigma hammer also consumes about 20 stamina I'm guessing. Now sword Lann based on the calculator with all the same stats as Fiona except for her agility (used my chars agility assuming its realistic) does 196.6 normal attack, first smash 319.5, second smash 359.4, then assuming you do a gliding fury 710.2, then assuming you do a lightning fury 508.5. All the way up to a gliding fury can be done in 4 seconds. 3 seconds just to cast the smashes. An extra 80ish damage can be done with a single 1k needle thrust although still under debate by NA server. The smashes cost 16 stamina, and gliding fury costs an extra 14 stamina, and a 1k Needle jab costs 10 stamina. To total things up:

• Fiona can do around 2833.6 every 11 seconds, 2207 every 8.5 seconds, or 1475.8 every 5.5 seconds consuming 40 stamina, or 20 stamina respectively.
• Lann can do 875.5 damage every 3 seconds, 1751 damage every 6 seconds, 2626.5 damage every 9 seconds, costing 16 stamina, 32 stamina, and 48 stamina respectively.
  • With a gliding fury Lann can have a damage output of 1585.7 for 1 gliding fury, 2461.2 for 2 gliding furys, 3336.7 for 3 gliding furys, costing 30 stamina, 60 stamina, and 90 stamina respectively.

I'm not going to bother to do Lighting fury because its to fickle a skill, and the gliding fury stats speak for themselves. Sword Lann has far better DPS(Damage Per Second) then hammer Fiona. If Sword Lann gets a single gliding fury he can easily out damage Hammer Fiona, and while H1111 makes the point that Lann has much higher stamina consumption then Fiona and thus negates his claim to higher DPS, this problem lies in the Battle Respiration skill which on every guide thats ever written about Lann tells you to max it as soon as possible, so a level 44 Lann will most likely have this max giving them high stamina regen. Taking 2 to 3 seconds for there stamina to regen to full, so lets say its at 2.5 seconds. By the time Lann has regened his full stamina Fiona is just finishing her combo and there by catching up to how much damage Lann has done, and Lann is now starting to do more damage while Fiona continues to run out of stamina. The stats do not back up your claim that Hammer Fiona has higher DPS. You can do the calculations yourself at Damage calculator if you would like, i simply copy and pasted. All though you may argue that everything I have written is purely estimations they are based on the facts that the argument above lacked, not to mention the difference in numbers are simply to high for a difference of 1 second to matter. Not to mention that I have negated critical hit damage, and haven't given a proper estimated chance for Lann to do gliding fury and or lightning fury. Now to be precise, damage does not depend on the character but on the player and there ability to play so this entire argument is moot, but used properly with the right build, Lann out DPS's Fiona, and while Fiona does have very high burst with emphasis on burst damage, she is not able to keep her damage as consistent as Lann. While she does have high knockdown which makes it easier to have her burst damage more consistent, it will never be as consistent as Lanns. Lanns are, by definition, the DPS class, and do more damage per hit, period. You cant make 1+1=3, the math just doesn't support Fiona. --Veltan 05:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but I think your closing statement's going a bit far. There's nothing in the guide that encourages any sort of jackassery, and "hardcore" doesn't necessarily mean "jerk". We can learn valuable strategies from "hardcore" players without becoming the sorts of, well, "intense" players (to put it very nicely) that are unfortunately all too frequent on Vindictus. So far, the discussion's been a little heated but still civil, and it would be nice to see it stay that way. --Ujuidar 06:46, 23 January 2011 (UTC)