Template talk:Enemy

So, how do you tell what "type" the enemy is? Linoleumz 04:13, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Usually by group, such as Gnolls, Vampires, etc. Some enemies are a bit more confusing, such as Jellies or "Burrowing", I don't think we know how to predict those types yet. ;; -- Bumble talk 04:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we put "Location" on this? Shadowslicer777 23:54, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This template needs to be complete redone. Nobody has successfully redone it yet. If you're interested, feel free to sketch something up and show us on IRC or come bounce ideas off of us. Saiyr 01:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Finally decided to change the monster template. If there are any problems, leave a message on this template's talk page, or on my talk page. 〜 Cel a don talk 23:04, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

New Design
To Basdeth You're awesome with this wiki and all, but the new enemy template... I don't feel so easy using that. So why don't we just stick with the old version which seems to bit more complicated to use and edit. -- Jlee talk 02:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for voicing your concerns! The template is going to change, so I would like to ask for clarification on what you dislike about the proposed changes.
 * You've called the changes "complicated to use and edit" (I think? Did I misinterpret?). In what way?
 * In implementing the template, the code is almost exactly the same. The only change is the addition of break off parameters. Do you feel the break off parameters are too confusing? How would you rather see them set up? I feel the addition of them is a good thing, because I've used this wiki to find break off information. It's annoying and not user friendly to have to dig through the page to find the information wherever that page's editor felt like placing it. But of course I am open to changing how it is implemented. If you have a better way for it to be done, let me know!
 * Note: I also intend to add a value to the hero drops parameter, to add an indicator for enemies that do not have hero mode available; I just forgot to do this before. I don't feel that 'hero drops=no hero' should add too much complication
 * There is more code in the template page itself than there way previously, and it does use some conditional formatting. But it is largely linear, and the conditional formatting is very simple and not nested. Editors familiar with wiki templates should have no problem editing it.
 * On my talk page, you also said it looks a bit jumbled up. Do you mean you disagree with the organization? How would you see it organized? Or maybe there is some cross broswer compatibility issue I missed. It should look like the image to the right. If it doesn't look approximately like that to you, please upload a screenshot of it and tell me what browser you are using.
 * The reason I feel the template needs to change, is that it does not match the rest of the wiki visually. By "the rest of the wiki," I mean the Main Page, Quests, Items, Equipment, NPCs. These page all place content inside rounded light brown boxes.
 * For those that did not see the template changes, you can see the changed template on my Test Template page and the changed template in use in my Sandbox.
 * I look forward to hearing back from you Jlee, and if anyone else has any concerns please let me know :)


 * RE:Akumo on my talk page: Whlie I was typing this wall of text, Akumo provided feedback on my talk page!<3 I am responding here as I would like to keep discussion on the topic centralized. Anyway, I see what you mean about the location and titles. I'll fiddle around with that a bit and see what I can come up with. As for the issue with the Spiders page, I was thinking such pages could be redirected/replaced with the monster type category pages. I got the idea from Jlee's edit to Goblin. By using a category page, all the monsters of the same type would be automatically listed. Extra information could be listed at the top of the category page, such as in Category:Sub_Bosses. I've always found pages like the spiders page somewhat unwieldy personally, and so feel this would be an improvement. But what do you think?
 * Basdeth 05:16, 20 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Now that I think about it it does seems fit the wiki, but for the |type= part I don't know if we need entire new categories for the enemy so I think we should remove that. Also I don't like how the letters in "Skills and Attacks" are bigger than "Battle Tips and Advice" it kinda looks weird. And for the content box, that thing is totally ruining the view. The template only has 3 sections in it, so I don't think we contents box for that. So if you know how to remove it please do, but if you don't know you don't bother about it. Also do you know how to make words automatically become a link on drop list? If you do, it will totally make things bit easy for us people who edits here. But like I said, if you don't know you don't have to bother about it. You're really awesome with this wiki. Keep it up! ;) -- Jlee talk 13:47, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, for the organizing. Why don't we have the drop list between the Skills and Attack, and Additional Note.
 * Also how do you use the break off parameter? -- Jlee talk 14:07, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback! You're probably right about the table of contents, and I see what you mean about the battle tips and advice looking off. I've fixed both those things. As for placing drops after the combat information, honestly I'm prone to agree with you, and in fact that was how it was organized much of the time I was working on the template. However, I noticed (and Akumo mentioned it as well on my talk page) that sometimes people get very, very wordy when describing boss attacks. This would mean on many pages a person would have to scroll wayyyyy down to find drop information. And I am inclined to think that most of the wiki users are after that information, as the drop section gets more random users editing it than anything else. As such, I feel the drop list should keep its prominent placement.
 * As for the category, I'm rather set on the idea. I'm surprised you in particular don't like it - you were essentially creating a category page with your edit to Goblin. The difference is, manual lists are difficult to maintain and prone to user error. If you see value in a page that lists all the monsters of a certain type, then categories are the way to go imho.
 * The thing about editing the drop list, is that it is used on soooo many pages that any changes would have to be backwards compatible. With that constraint, I don't feel there's really much I can do to improve it. Items listed in the breakoff parameters are automatically link in the drop list, and I'm thinking of adding a quest item parameter, but that's about it. Both those change will have to be revised in manually as is; manually revising every drop page rather than just a select few seems too much.
 * Speaking of breakoffs, I've added documentation explaining it on my Test Template and it is in use in my Sandbox (no hero is as well, though I don't actually know it Ingkells has hero mode. It is merely for demonstration purpose). Basdeth 04:09, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah. it looks better now. And if the category is that important, than I just have to get used it. Does the other admins agree with this? -- Jlee talk 12:37, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The Rocheste daily raids do not have a hero mode, but as of the Episode 10 patch they all gained normal mode. That includes Avatar of Destruction, The Dark, Dank Sewers, The Central Garden, Ahglan the Golem and The Giant. The Albey raids also gained normal mode with this patch. That is Betrayal, The Evil One and Colru the Golem. Previously all of these battles were hard mode only.
 * As for the template being used for Ingkells in your sandbox, I like it. I think the drops should be at the top, as anyone who has fought the enemy even once will know what the attacks are (or at least have a general idea if not the specific motions of the attacks). The drops are what people really want to know, especially for scroll drops. I get people asking me all the time who drops what scroll and if I can confirm the scrolls being dropped (if they didn't believe it). Since they know I'm always on the wiki, it makes it easy.
 * If you're happy with the template I'd say go ahead and implement it. The format suits the wiki well. -- Masq talk 13:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It sounds like everyone is more or less on board with the changes now, so I'm going to go ahead and implement them. More changes and tweaks can always be made afterwards if they are so desired. Thank you everyone for your feedback! Basdeth 22:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I really hate to add to this, but I made a significant enough tweak to it that I feel I should mention it. On pages such as Titan and Commander Kakrish, just adding the breakoff item to the end of the list was confusing. As such, I sectioned off the breakoff items in the drop list. For the same reason I went ahead and added quest item tags, and sectioned them off similarly. If anyone feels this could be formatted better let me know. Basdeth 07:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Enemy Stats
Oh no, it's me again! I'll try to be succinct this time.

After a discussion with Masquerine, I've had a go at adding monster stats to the template. You can see the revised template and documentation here. The template can be seen in use at its simplest and busiest.

Opinions and suggestions welcome as always.

I am particularly interested in people's opinions on including calculated hero mode stats. I like the idea of it, but there are a couple problems. Namely, I worry that some stats may be off due to a modifier that isn't currently known. Basdeth 13:18, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, its been a while, so I went ahead and implemented the changes. I'm by no means in love with how it's set up, but I feel it's adequate enough. I separated the stat display into its own template, so if anyone can come up with a better idea for the formatting it shouldn't be too much of a headache to change. I also added support for displaying concept images. The documentation is all on the template page for anyone that wants to add this stuff to enemy pages. Basdeth 06:24, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Quest Items
Is there a way to make the quest item display multiple stories that it is used in without using another line? I'm on Black Breeze and he has 4 story items, with 6 stories that they are a part of. The template only seems to allow 4 quest items to be listed in total, and doesn't display any additional ones. Quest 5 and 6 here would not be displayed. Here's what it looks like:


 * quest item=Old Note


 * quest=Song of the Plains


 * quest2 item=Old Note


 * quest2=In Memory Of


 * quest3 item=Flower


 * quest3=In Memory Of


 * quest4 item=Flower


 * quest4=Memories


 * quest5 item=Lost Ring


 * quest5=In Memory Of


 * quest6 item=Fully Bloomed Flower


 * quest6=Peaceful Delegation

For anything prior to this I just used Quest2 if the item was used for another story (if there was only one item). Nothing prior had more than 4 though. Let me know what I need to do to fix it and I'll backtrack later and make the changes. For now I'll continue on, though I don't think any other boss has so many story items and related stories -- Masq talk 15:51, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The template does not currently support multiple entries per quest parameter. I could add it in, but I feel it would add complication to editing. I went ahead and increased the number of quest parameters, so they should all be displayed now.
 * Also, I have a question for you. The breakoff parameters do not work for enemies such as Roperem, where he has a breakoff but not a special breakoff item. Are there any enemies that have a breakoff without a special breakoff item, as well as breakoffs with special breakoff items? (I know Ahglan has some itemless breakoffs, but they match up with item breakoff points so it shouldn't be a problem). Basdeth 20:23, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Enemies with a break but no item dropped:

The Emperor (Head)

Beokros (24 and 8 man: Head, Tail, Left Wing, Right Wing)

Siglint (24 and 8 man: Head Horn, Tail, Left Wing, Right Wing)

Ahglan (Right Leg Shell, Right Hand Shell, Left Hand Shell, Chest Shell)

Succubus (Hat, Mask, Jacket, Tie, Blouse, Skirt, Shoes, Stockings)


 * Enemies with breaks but don't drop a specific item. Also for the Colru golems, the core can be looted right away:

Strategy Chief Roperem (Right Shoulder, can be Exquisite Leather/Exquisite Cloth)

Bronzesmith Creidhne (Chest, can be Amber Fossil Fragment, Copper Ore Fragment, Pyrite Fragment)

Carpenter Luchtain (Right Hand, can be Amber Fossil Fragment, Copper Ore Fragment, Pyrite Fragment)

Blacksmith Goibhniu (Left Hand, can be Amber Fossil Fragment, Copper Ore Fragment, Pyrite Fragment)

Stonemason Gobanser (Left Face, can be Amber Fossil Fragment, Copper Ore Fragment, Pyrite Fragment)


 * Enemies with Breaks, but can drop the item normally:

Thorn Laghodessa (Front Right Claw, drops Laghodessa Sharp Claw)

Raiding Party Captain Larken (Head, drops Larken's Head Ornament)

The Flicker (Right spear arm, drops Flicker's Blade)

Taonu (Face Fang, drops Taonu Fang)

Klaus (Head Horn, drops Klaus Horn)


 * Of everything listed for breaks, there's only a couple that require a specific attack or item to get the break.

Ahglan: All breaks require Sticky Bombs (gift or real)

Succubus: Blouse requires Fine Spears. Skirt requires Sticky Bombs. Stocking require you to kick them.


 * That's all I can think of right now. Ahglan's breaks require a different amount of hits, and I think it was marked on either his page or the Break Off page. All the crystals only take a single hit though. Let me know if you need any more info.-- Masq talk 21:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)