Template talk:Battle Page

This template is too wide and there's really a lot of unnecessary nesting, please fix it. -- Bumble talk 10:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Monsters EXP - Remove?
I feel that the monster EXP section should be removed, for the following reasons: So, to sum it up, monster exp being displayed currently makes the wiki look abandoned, without much to be gained if all the information were filled in, and if someone were to fill in all the information time would first have to be spent figuring out the best way to accommodate multiple exp values in templates. I am open to exp being added back in the future, but with how much else needs doing on the wiki, I say we just remove exp for now. Basdeth 12:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Nearly all monsters do not currently have the exp information entered. This wouldn't be a problem in and of itself (missing information can be filled in), but I feel it is worth noting for two reasons.
 * 2) It makes many of the pages on the wiki look incomplete, and with that many pages lacking information it makes the wiki look kind of abandoned. I don't think that's healthy for a wiki.
 * 3) If monster exp is removed, not much currently available information will be lost.
 * 4) I highly doubt many people are coming to the wiki to find this information. Exp from monsters is largely negligible in Vindictus - and without knowing how many of a certain type of monster are in a dungeon, there's not a lot you can calculate using the exp from a single monster anyway.
 * 5) Monsters that are found across multiple boats often have several possible exp amounts. Currently, the wiki has no way of handling that.


 * I do agree that knowing the monster EXP is fairly negligible in the grand scheme of things, as most of the EXP awarded for a battle comes from just completing the battle itself along with an Oath of Honor. However, it would be nice to show the monster HP/Attack/Defense/Critical/Critical Resist. It is extremely important to know these things on end game/Hero bosses. I see people all the time trying to attack a boss they literally do 0 damage to (don't even try to say there's a minimum damage they do - it's a pathetic amount of damage for how much effort they need to do). Someone with 7k attack rating attacking a boss with 9.6k defense would be lucky to do 1% in an hour. The minimum damage is that bad. Whether on this template or the enemy page itself, I think we should show the enemy stats somewhere. The stats help people determine whether or not they should even attempt killing a particular boss with their current equipment/skill setup, and it's the main thing I use the vindictusdb for. -- Masq talk 13:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm yeah, those stats are pretty important. The reason I didn't include them when I revamped the enemy template is because of some ambiguity in the db (which is where such information is likely to be copied from). For example: Two striped spiders. Which one is encountered where? Or two Commander Karkish. Why are there two? Are his stats different for each area he is a boss in? And two Hobgoblin. I assume the first is encountered as a boss, and the second as a normal mob? But I'm assuming. I don't like assuming, it can lead to the spreading of misinformation. I also was unsure about how stats vary based on mode, but someone posted a link on the official forums today to a guild forum that explains modifiers pretty well . But you're right, it is very crucial information. Hopefully a way to deal with the ambiguity can be dealt with, and I'll start fiddling around with a way to display the information on the enemy template. With that being added, exp might as well be displayed on the enemy template as well. I still feel it should be removed from the monsters found section of the battle page template though, as it doesn't really seem pertinent to battles. Basdeth 01:06, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * About the multiple of the same monster on db. Some bosses appear in different battles with different stats. For example, Commander Kakrish appears in two battles: Lost Road and The Last Fragment. He's buffed up a little more in The Last Fragment and gains an extra attack or two. In this battle he is also one combat level higher than the Lost Road battle. Level really only plays a role when the player character is lower than the enemy. Enemies of a higher level do additional damage to the player, which adds to difficulty. The striped spider one has a level 20 spider and a level 61. The level 61 is found in Gatekeeper of the Catacombs, as I know those spiders are stronger than other ones. Tried getting the kick kill BP before and it took some effort. I believe the level 20 ones are also found in Betrayal and The Evil One, and the 61s only being used for Gatekeeper of the Catacombs. The goblins in Gatekeeper of the Catacombs are also buffed up from ainle's goblins.
 * The information ambition has about the mechanics is correct: Hero attack +5k, defense x2.3 and hp x3, macha x1.8 damage to player. Critical and Resistance don't change, but Critical has a minimum of 3%. Had it happen today with a boss that had like 34 Critical vs my 62 Resistance. Crit me in trans for instant life flare on hero. 3% chance OP. The total hp of an enemy varies on the battle and if it's a raid or not. Raid bosses tend to have static hp, while normal battles are dynamic based on total amount of players. Labyrinth/Gauntlet is also dynamic. The Hobgoblin first appears as a boss in Chicanery, then is re-used in several battles as a mob. This is the same way for Meperdu and Hilder Forest Ruins. Starts as a boss and re-used as a mob. Matur is also a boss and mob in Hilder Forest Ruins. Hope that clears up your confusion. -- Masq talk 04:13, 01 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not so much that I was confused about those specific monsters. They were just grabbed at random for examples of monsters with multiple variants to illustrate why I had hesitated on adding monster stats to the enemy template. But thank you for the very detailed response, it's appreciated :) Anyway, I'm going to move discussion over to Template talk:Enemy. I'll come back to fiddle with this one later. Basdeth 13:02, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Min/Max Evil Cores
The description of the min/max evil cores in this template says it's from normal mobs, which is not exactly useful nor easily acquirable information. The majority of normal mob drops are negligible in comparison to the Boss drops, and Boss drops are easy to calculate. I think it would be more informative if the min/max cores was changed to show Boss min/max instead of mob min/max. Boss break offs would be included in the max drops (if the break has a core), while min drops would just be the base amount of cores dropped on death. For example: Gnoll Chieftain has one break off, so his min would be 3 cores (normal mode) with a max of 6 cores (5 cores hero + 1 core break). What do you think of this suggestion? -- Masq talk 13:20, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Position of maps
I'm wondering whether we have the best position for the maps.

The map is currently tucked below the infobox, which is 300px wide, so the map is also limited to around that width, Currently the map area is set at 310px width. Once a map has 4 areas, or an area has 4 paths, the tabs for areas or paths overflow the line. They're still clickable, but they're not very readable. While the maps themselves all fit within 310px width, some seem to have been shrunk to fit in that size, reducing clarity.

If we move the map to after the notes, giving it the full page width, the tab problem should disappear, and we could upload larger maps. Larger maps might also make it easier to add detail. Currently we're trying to describe erg pot locations and wisp locations in the notes, and the descriptions are sometimes hard to follow. If they were indicated by a code on the map, this could be clearer.