Vindictus Wiki talk:Community portal/April 21st, 2011

Enchants
How are we handling enchant scrolls? Seems like we need a template that has name, prereq, available for, effect, prefix/suffix, rank, etc.--Tamaki 22:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is a list of enchants with their information . Also I need someone to delete my "Temple:Enchants List" page :X--User:Ɛαmes - ταłκ 18:01, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Marketplace Suggestion-if possible
Is possible to set up a monitoring system for marketplace for current market place prices (1 hour checker), probably would help many people. Ideas? (Liosrakia)

Equipment Enhancements
I think a section for equipment enhancements should be added to the existing templates. For example, info on each enhancement could be added, like what stats change, how much it costs, what enhancements stones or other materials are needed for the enhancement, the effect of a success or fail, etc. Oops, wasn't logged in. --Tamaki 10:14, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion 2
I have a idea for a new layout for the portal pages they are on my talk page. User talk:Daytimefrogger, I think it will make the pages more attractive and easier to read

Slight Help Needed
I uploaded the picture owl but I have no idea how to make the background transparent. Also the tables got kinda messed up here: http://www.vindictuswiki.com/wiki/Marketplace_Message_Board
 * I fixed and reuploaded your owl picture. :) ~Skye  •talk• ♦contribs♦  04:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It didn't really work... also the pig picture, btw I'm talking about making it transparent so that it fits into the theme for the Egg Hatching Owl quest
 * I think the owl is just too tall for it to really fit nicely in the template. The template automatically resizes the pictures of the NPC's to 120 pixels wide, so I think that's as small as the owl is getting on the Egg Hatching Owl page. And the pig looks fine to me; I don't really know how you want it to look. :/ ~Skye  •talk• ♦contribs♦  04:48, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Things that need to be done
1. Update all weapon stats, the quest that you need to finish to craft the item is also needed

2. Add the new skills to the character pages

3. Fix the boxes on the character pages

4. Add the new dungeon info in the dungeon page

5. Change the new dungeon from unreleased to released

6. Edit the stat changes

7. Create a page on the binding system

8. Keep party members in the same channel
 * This is a wiki for Vindictus ran by people not associated with Nexon. We have nothing to do with the development of the game :) &copy;Mairu 06:46, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Equipment/item/etc Template fix: 8. Change "Tradeable (License Waived) to "This item can be traded." -And maybe add the unbind part and get rid of the "can be mailed" message.
 * Done. I didn't add the unbind part in, though. If you see a page that wasn't changed, please change it. Also, if an item is a story item (it'll say in game if it's a story item at the bottom), please use "|trade=story" instead of "|trade=no". Thanks! 〜 Cel a don talk 18:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Tamaki's Headaches
Prepare for my bitching. Again.

TEMPLATES: I find that, even though they look organized, they are very difficult to edit and create for a normal contributor like myself. For example, I was trying to expand the stub for a story to acquire Large Shield Mastery, and I didn't even know where to start. I ended up copying another skill template and replacing the information, but that has its difficulties as well. Even if you gave me a general template to use, I'm not sure I'd know exactly which criteria to use. Those templates don't make them very easily accessible to some contributors. The whole ordeal which should have been really simple since I knew how to complete the quest turned into a real headache that I simply gave up on. I can't help but think this turns away other potential contributions. Make the templates more accessible to everyone, or get rid of them completely. Mabinogi Wiki, which in my opinion is very functional, doesn't look like its pages contain anything more than simple wiki headers, bullets, and some simple to create tables. --Tamaki 07:30, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree with your first statement entirely. Since this new patch came out, I waited up to play it, and I decided to fill in the wiki on all the new stuff while I was doing it. Only then did I realize how much of a pain the templates are. It took like half an hour to figure out the templates, and by that time I was just like, screw this, im just gonna play, other ppl can fill this in. Do the templates look good? Yes. Do they make putting stuff in easier? No, except for maybe the rewards in quests, but even then that takes quite a bit of figuring out. They just aren't practical. I know it would be as much a pain deleting them and then figuring out a format to rebuild them in, but figuring out the technicals is a pain. I've been wanting to say something, but the problem really isnt that noticeable, so I didnt quite act on it. Veltan


 * Feel free to dump the information without putting it in a template. Someone will eventually put it in the correct format. This is exactly the same thing that would happen if it weren't a template either; for the sake of uniformity, it would eventually need to be edited to be similar to other pages of the same type. If you do that on your initial edit of the page, then you've copy/pasted the existing wikicode from another page already, which is part of what's being complained about...I do agree that some templates can probably go and nobody will shed a tear (quest template, as mentioned above), but I think people should take the few minutes to understand templates as well. I don't really think it's that complicated. Can you tell exactly what you were doing in the half hour you tried to figure out the templates? Saiyr  09:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't going around and reorganizing information into a template a lot of extra work? Why can't the wiki drop the templates for the sake of simplicity and cutting down workload? Surely you guys have better things to do. --Tamaki 21:51, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's a extra work for us, but you guys don't want to learn templates, so that's what has to be done in the current situation. A few of us already have to look at every change made to the wiki anyway, and it's apparently not as much work for me to templatize as it is for you. Equally annoying, maybe. I don't think you should worry about what we have to do if we're willing to do it. Also, I'd like to point out that MabinogiWorld has a ton more templates than VindictusWiki. This count is a little misleading, but if MabinogiWorld is your model, then template-free is clearly not the solution. Saiyr  03:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I added every quest I came across today and it was kind of annoying. I think that particular template should go away, because it's very rigid and doesn't seem to even handle all the proper cases. However, I'm pretty sure even if it gets un-templated, it will still be a lot of copy-paste for uniformity. Anyway, it's hard to tell exactly what you're looking for by "making templates more accessible". I've heard this phrase several times and it's meaningless without example. Feel free to visit in IRC, since I know you've been there before. I'd like to see a Sandbox of what you have in mind for quest pages, if you're up for it. Saiyr  09:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * By make templates more accessible we mean its something that should be general knowledge to the wiki writing community. No one really knows these templates besides the people who originally wrote them. And they can be a bit tricky if you aren't quick enough to pick up a bit on coding. And the thing that took me a half hour to figure out was the rewards part of quests when I was adding in a second reward. If you dont get it right, it screws up the entire reward box. And if anyone thinks theres anyway to get out format copy and pasting there sadly mistaken, copy and paste is a heaven send when it comes to formating pages, we just wanna use a format that we dont need a 20 lb. manual on. In another wiki I use to work on they made it fairly simple, they had a page set out for users that had every format the way they wanted it. It was also perfect for a clean template. Id give u the link, but the wiki has since lost support and ceases' to exist. But it was pretty basic and was just 'headline' 'paragraph' 'table'. the tables were the biggest pain to do, but at least i was a basic table were you could write everything out simply without having to figure out whats already determined as what spot. Yes the template tables are well labeled, but there formated in such a way that its challenging to figure out how to make spaces and stuff. Its a known fact that its easier to work on something when your the one who wrote it. Veltan


 * I was planning to have a page that showed users how to add new items, stories, etc. I wasn't planning to get rid of templates to do it, though. Also, I didn't write most of these templates, so that's irrelevant. Saiyr  03:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the templates help with uniformity and make a nice clean page; however they do have a learning curve. If there where pages that described how to construct the common types or articles, and that were easy to find it would help people who don't have experience with them. I think I only picked up on them so easily because I program and have done markup before. Not everyone needs to know how to make templates but tutorials on how to use the common ones would be helpful. In the mean time if someone want to post the info for something with no templates or even without that much formatting (as it will be rewritten anyway) I'm sure that there are others who wouldn't mind putting it into a template. I wouldn't mind helping to format a few plain text pages or what not as I'm still trying to reach level 38 let alone 44 so most my time on here is helping to interlinking things and increasing uniformity anyway. Sigil Baram (Talk) 03:53, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not so much against learning how to use templates, but some of the templates need work. It'd also be great if there was a place where we had links to most commonly used templates, and maybe a small "for dummies" guide on navigating through template code. Tamaki 07:47, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, some templates need work. Actually most of them do, since we dropped the old skin. I'll bump up the editing guides on my priority list, but I'm pretty busy right now. Sigilbaram started Help:How To Make A Quest Page. It's a work-in-progress of sorts, but feel free to provide feedback on that its talk page or add things you think are useful that you now know. Saiyr  16:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I moved the help page to Help:How to Make a Story Page as I wrote quest out of habit, but they are stories. Sigil Baram (Talk) 02:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

ORGANIZATION: Really needs work. Going back to Large Shield Mastery as an example, info about Large Shields is spread all over the place. You've got crafting info in one place, obtaining the skill book in another, and then general info about the skill in an entirely different place. Couldn't we come up with some sort of harmonious way to have this information in one convenient location? Honestly, I don't know how that'd work, but I think if we put our heads together we could come up with some genius. For example, how about organizing things by, say, "The Forge", "The General Shop", "Magical Laboratory". In "The Forge", you could have all information about the craft able items, the stories that start there, the NPCs..etc. It isn't perfect by any means, but my point is there has to be some intuitive way to organize information that works and is logical and easy to navigate.
 * Looking at the way mabinogi wiki is organized, it wouldn't be an awful thing to maybe borrow some ideas? Mabinogi wiki probably isn't perfect either, but it's much more simple to get around in and to work with. For instance, on our main page we could have say, a heading that says "Locations" or perhaps "Colhen". Under that heading we have a subheading called "The Forge", and then links to pages for "Trade" "Crafting", "Stories", "NPCs", etc etc, anything else applicable to all the buildings in Colhen. Then maybe we have a Character heading, and the subheaders are "Fiona", "Evie", "Lann", and those have links to "Weapons", "Skills", "Guides", etc. Or something along those lines. Well, you get the general idea: it needs work. --Tamaki 07:30, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Organization has already been mentioned, which is the reason while someones working on a new main page. Everyone agrees on this point. But I do agree with your conclusion. This needs to be more like the mabi wiki. I have to say, not quite like what you said, because its thinking in catagories that gave us our first main page. What we need to start with is simply what the game is made of. We need to make it basic and simple, people can make it pretty once we've made it functionable. Do the same exact thing the mabi wiki did, literally everything you need is on the front page. We could simply do Skills: Evie: waterfall list of skill links. Lann: same. Fiona: same. and do that with everything. Main story: Ch. 1, Ch. 2, etc. And the thing that tops off everything on Mabi wiki is the connectability of the pages. I often look at it to look up 1 thing, and find myself openning 6 other pages to learn new stuff about the game. In this wiki, your going through 6 pages to find what your looking for. These are the critical things we need, just the basics... Veltan


 * I disagree with MW's navigation. Three pages is excessive. Saiyr  09:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Three pages is excessive? I'm not sure what your referring to. Veltan


 * Yes. Name me another website that has three pages of navigation on their front page. One page is fine for navigation. Three pages is a site map. Saiyr  03:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think crafting info for every large shield belongs in large shield mastery. How to obtain the skill is linked from the main page, and rightfully so, because it's a quest. Nor do I really thing organizing items by location is really that interesting or necessary, though I'm not actively opposed to it, since it's the natural order of querying from within the game. I think when people are looking for items they're much more interested in types of armor, weapons, etc., for which we already have pages (though not yet linked on the front page, perhaps). Who crafts what is of minor consequence. Feel free to look at User:Saiyr/Sandbox for the WIP, though it's not really "IP" right now. Saiyr  09:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Organizing things the best way possible won't be something simple and I realize that. But maybe what can be done that's less complex is make things easier to edit for wikinoobs like myself. When you look up "Counterattack" on mabi wiki it's got everything you'd ever want to know about it: what it is, where to get it, how much AP each rank costs, what each rank does, even details about how the skill works. I know I could fill those kinds of things up about vindictus's counterattack, too. --Tamaki 07:30, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see how the skill page template doesn't cover all of this already. Saiyr  09:12, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Guide for Contributors: This is another issue here: there's no real "uniformity" guide or standard guide for contributions. I think it'd be really useful to have a guide for adding different types of information. For example, I wanted expand the stub for Large Shield Mastery story, but I've really no idea what to put without using examples from similar stories. However, the other stories use templates, so if I don't want to use a template, what do I do? What kind of headings should there be? Should I include bulleted lists? tables? What information do I need to add? A guide would be great just to follow some directions so I don't have to use logic to guess about what needs to be added. Directions would be nice so I know exactly what standard the wiki uses, and so I don't forget information or misplace it. --Tamaki 21:51, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

New Extensions
I'm wondering what kind of extensions you guys are looking for?

I was planning on installing a few today but was hoping for some community input. -- Bumble talk 15:18, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Main page and Navigations
Hi, bumble! I like the newly renovated wiki. Great job! I have a suggestion though, which I've kind of brought up before. I think the main page's space could be put to better use. There's two ways to get to almost the same locations and it seems sort of redundant. Check this wiki out: [ http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com]. I like it because it has pretty much everything you could ever want right there on the front page: no browsing through half a dozen  navigation panels to find what you want. I'm not suggesting we do exactly the same thing, but I think having something similar where we  could put things people commonly would like to look at.

That is a big problem I've had with this wiki the moment I first came here:  so many navigation pages just to get where you want to go. Every time I want to check up on my guide I have to go through 3 navigations just to  get there, and that's because I know exactly where I'm going: anyone  else might need a roadmap. And, like I said before, I think the character pages could be more useful. It's nice all the skills are there that are relevant to that character, but why not have other relevant  information as well?

I really believe the way the wiki is organized could be rehauled and made to be much more efficient. I'd be glad to work with you on it if you'd like! --Tamaki 22:16, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * USER TALK INTERCEPTION! Bumble and the rest of the other admins are aware of the current terrible-ness of  the current main page. I've made those exact criticisms of the portal  navigation to Bumble before, and Saiyr has been  working on a new main page. Hopefully we'll have it up soon.  Mairu 22:28, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

DOUBLE INTERCEPTION! Oh, okay, that's good to know. I believe in you guys! --Tamaki 00:00, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Mairu forgot to mention that we would love to have you talk in Wiki IRC if  you have ideas on how to improve things.  Saiyr  03:07, 27 November 2010  (UTC)

Suggestions
1. I feel like the character page (The page after you click on character) needs to flow better like maybe put the  characters up top and just have that link to the npcs at the bottom? I feel like there is too much clicking when I want to look up a character.

2. I feel like the black an whiteness of this wiki is kinda depressing, I wish the pictures would be more colorful
 * Theres a new main page thats being worked on, so i dont think this is  something you should worry about.By Veltan

3. Maybe change the 'information' thing under game system to Concepts or something its like of miss leading

4. I feel like this wiki needs be become more professional and uniform and  to start basing this wiki on the American version and stop using so  much stuff from the Korean versions I mean we should still keep it but  maybe all on one page instead of being stuffed with all the other  information and having to weave through what is actually in the game and  what WILL be in the game in the future
 * I think this wiki is pretty decent already, im not sure what u mean by more professional. The  only wiki ive seen thats better then this one is the mabi wiki. And I  dont know if you've gone through the entire thing, but theres hardly  anything from the korean game on this wiki. What little stuff there is,  will most likely be put into the game  tonight.By Veltan

5. Expanding our help pages to make sure that everyone can help make this wiki a lot better

6. A weekly random article, I've noticed that this is one of the few wikis  that don't have a random article thing at the home page
 * You've got a random page button... You can click it to your hearts content.  xDBy Veltan

7. A temporary box at the homepage saying which articles could be improved  on and what needs to be done, this way people will be more willing to  help out when they know there are things to do
 * I have to agree, I know a new main page is in progress, but it would be nice to see a "in  progress page" or a "things that need to be done" list  somewhere.By Veltan

Ok, I know it seems like I am whining about a lot of this stuff, but all  I'm trying to do is put some suggestions out there in order to make this  wiki better, I mean no disrespect and I know its probably easy for me  to whine and not do anything but I am trying to fix this stuff myself. Keep it up by the way I know this wiki is probably pretty new and it has helped me! So thanks!

It would be nice if we had standardized formatting, and formatting guides so I know how to arrange the information I'm adding. Also so everything looks similar and is easier to use. --Fluffy 06:42, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
 * We did have a pretty standard look until the recent upgrade. Now everything is in flux. Help:Guidelines has the old information, I guess it needs to be updated. Most of the pages you'll add probably use templates of some sort. Just look for existing pages of the same type (quest, item, mob, etc.), copy/paste it, and then modify it to suit your needs. Saiyr  09:14, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

8. I am new to wiki sites sort of, I don't know how to edit the pages to add content and stuff but I have noticed that there is a subquest missing- "Marrec's Secret 3" and I was going to add that along with all of it's information but like I said before, I don't know how.
 * Help:How to Make a Story Page. If you have any other questions feel free to visit Wiki IRC for help! &copy;Mairu 20:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

MediaWiki Errors
I'm pretty sure its just skin problems but i keep getting tons of code at  the top that looks all funny. Also I have gotten one other failure, was updating a page and it gave me some kinda error when I hit save, I would  of payed more attention if I knew u were asking for errors. Veltan @ w/e time this says.

I'll fix it today. -- Bumble talk 13:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Skins
I don't know about others, but I personally dislike the new skin. On other wikis I've been a part of, there was an option under "Appearances" in the "My Preferences" page where you had a choice of a few different skins, but there isn't one here. Just wondering if that could be implemented sometime. ~Skye •talk• ♦contribs♦  23:42, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

It was disabled due to the footer and analystics only being attached to one skin (that being vector), of course, I could change the skin to look better if you want. -- Bumble talk 18:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, don't change the skin itself just for one person. I can get past it. It just kind of makes my eyes bleed a little bit. ~Skye  •talk• ♦contribs♦  02:49, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Fluffy Section
I wanted to throw an incomplete tag on a page I"m editing, and being a copy-paster, in order to get the coding/formating right I went looking for one. They appear to be gone/broken.  Did the incomplete tag get deleted/ broken? or the coding get changed? --Fluffy 05:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)


 * An anonymous user blanked it without a reason. The template seems useful enough, so I unblanked it. It should work now; add  to the page. --Ujuidar 06:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't know where else to complain and this looked like a good place. Started working on lann weapon stat corrections and discovered it messed up the list of lann weapons page. I'm gonna plow ahead but could use some help.--Fluffy 06:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, was able to fix it somewhat. The weapon list entry is sensitive to how the equipment template is used which makes things not very robust. Idk how to fix it but its hard to work with.  Also the weapons list doesn't even have all the stats either so needs some looking into.--Fluffy 07:50, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Organization
This page is being used as a talk page and I don't think it helps the community as much as it could. Wikipedia uses this as a central place for information the wiki community needs by giving easy access to help files, guidelines, to-do lists, etc. This kind of information is hard to find on Vindictus Wiki and I think that is part of the reason we get frequent questions and complaints about the same issues. This page could be moved to Vindictus Wiki talk:Community portal as that is essentially what it is (we have even been using level 2 headings lol).

There is a similar issue with our Help:Contents, also linked from the navigation bar, which has very little content. Going to Help:Content just to be directed to Help:Index seems redundant and requires extra clicking. These two pages should probably be merged and updated.

I think it might also be helpful if we had a project page for templates. There has been discussion of redoing them for the past three or four months since the skin was changed, yet little progress has been made. From what I have heard (read) from many, and in my own case as well, lack of direction on what the community wants is more discouraging than the actual coding itself. For example there has not yet been a color pallet defined, while many of the complaints are about how the templates do not match the wiki's skin. A project page would allow us to centralize ideas and discussion on the topic as currently this tends to be scattered all over the wiki or is discussed on the IRC channel and then lost on anyone who was not there for the conversation.

Sorry if this is long winded but it seemed to me that all of these issues combined hold back a lot of would be contributers. Sigil Baram (Talk) 03:19, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

favicon.ico
Wasn't there a favicon.ico for the wiki before? --Tymira 07:34, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Nope, but we could have one~ -- Bumble talk 15:08, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * My vote is yes!!! I usually have at least 5 tabs open and the Vindictus Wiki ones get kinda lost. The default icon is also just boring in general :P Sigil Baram (Talk) 19:57, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Gray Font on White Background
I think there needs to be a change in the colour layout of skill ranks (every other rank is really hard to see, but maybe it's cause I'm blind ;-; ). I'm not sure if this occurs in other pages yet. Also I was wondering if we should move this page to a Q&A page under the Navigation Toolbar so this page can be easily found.--Ɛαmes - ταłκ 18:04, 12 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing that out, it is now fixed. It was a side affect of the new skin. Unfortunately there is a lot of inline styling we have to go though and correct. If you see this kind of problem anywhere else just let us know and we'll fix it as soon as we can.


 * I don't think we should add anything more to the navigation bar as it is already fairly large. However, we could definitely add a link to this talk page in Help:Contents which is on the nav bar and could use more information. That is just my vote though lol. Sigil Baram (Talk) 19:50, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Deleting Accounts (PLEASE READ)
I accidently typed in Mahouse when I ment to type in Madhouse for my Vindictus Wiki account name and I can't find anywhere on any page to delete my account so that I can start over. I have read the Help pages as well. I hope I am not just having a blonde moment ^^;;. Sorry for the interruption. --Mahouse 15:56, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * You can just make a new account with the corrected name. If it doesn't let you because of your email, just go to My preferences then change the email on the bottom. I don't think it is necessary to delete your account as one account more or less on 6,523 total accounts doesn't make a great change ^^. --Nedigo 16:57, 23 March 2011 (UTC)